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misterlowercase
01-03-2017, 20:14
...a short tour of the Whitehall ghost factory.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks7Fp4SjYpw

plugugly
01-03-2017, 20:25
...a short tour of the Whitehall ghost factory.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks7Fp4SjYpw

I enjoyed that, Troy, not least because my dad was from Belfast. With Gallaher's as well as Murray's, Belfast seems to have had a rich pipe tobacco history. But when I was young I can only remember him smoking Ogden's Walnut Flake (from Liverpool!).................which reminds me - time to open another pack!!

misterlowercase
01-03-2017, 20:46
I enjoyed that, Troy, not least because my dad was from Belfast. With Gallaher's as well as Murray's, Belfast seems to have had a rich pipe tobacco history. But when I was young I can only remember him smoking Ogden's Walnut Flake (from Liverpool!).................which reminds me - time to open another pack!!

Good stuff Chris,
thanks.

The "red hand" story,
true or myth?

https://major-smolinski.com/FTpix/REDHAND6.jpg

Hawky454
01-03-2017, 21:35
Really cool to see where all the magic happened! I never got to try any of the tobacco's made by Murray & Sons but I've heard great things. Makes me also really appreciate that the Gawith co's are still up and running... one of the few that didn't get bought out but STG.

misterlowercase
01-03-2017, 21:53
Really cool to see where all the magic happened! I never got to try any of the tobacco's made by Murray & Sons but I've heard great things. Makes me also really appreciate that the Gawith co's are still up and running... one of the few that didn't get bought out but STG.

The sad fact is that it didn't get bought out by STG, toward the end of the viddy the narrator explains how British American Tobacco decided to close the factory in 2005 and then ship almost everything* to Orlik in Denmark for them to make the brands under license for BAT, it wasn't until later that STG became the actual brand owners, in a business sense I guess BAT reckoned pipe tobacco to be an antiquated thing of the past and probably didn't want to bother with it, concentrating on cigarettes instead.

*everything being almost absolutely everything, even old tobacco bales, tins, labels, all the machinery including those awesome steam-jacketed presses which are necessary for making a proper plug, plus all the blend recipes and intensive visits from factory managers during the set-up process for training purposes,
in short, the whole enchilada!

This site has the same viddy,
http://www.nakedcityguides.com/whitehall-tobacco-factory-video_fb989c53f.html
and with a transcription,
reproduced below:

Almost 200 years ago, in 1810, Murray and Sons was established. They produced fine tobacco and well-known pipe brands such as Dunhill, Erinmore and Craven. These products attracted quite a following since they were sold in 45 countries worldwide.

Carreras International took over Murray Sons & Company in 1953 but in 1967 they bought a controlling interest in Alfred Dunhill Ltd. However, only when Rothmans bought out Carreras in 1972 were operations eventually moved to this Belfast plant called Whitehall Tobacco Works as still indicated on the side of the building. The Dunhill brand which was originally based in London moved here in 1981. Up until that time Carreras had carefully managed their production in a blend-friendly environment as their Dunhill line production also included cigars and other smoking related items at that time. This abrupt turn though by Rothmans was seen a strategic brand exercise. Dunhill Tobacco Ltd effectively ceased to exist after this although it’s believed wrongly to have been associated with the original Dunhill pipes which were in fact made by another company even before this period.

There are some interesting features inside the empty hull of this building like the capitals atop the slim columns on the ground floor. Several fireplaces are surrounded with wooden panelling which would have made it that little bit more cosy looking during the colder spells here. The stairs are the main highlight and illustrate skilled craftsmanship. There are presently no details available about the internal characteristics of this Tobacco Works.

In 2005 Whitehall Tobacco Works of Murray Sons & Co manufacturing plant was closed and sold to British American Tobacco Group, or BAT. Since they already owned Rothmans, they outsourced all manufacturing of their pipe tobacco blends to the Orlik Tobacco Company based in Assens in Denmark. Machines and even raw and blended aging tobacco, as well as tinned products, lids, labels, and just about anything that could be shifted were sent to their new Danish premises.

The BBC reported at the time in October of 2004, that, “The owners of Murray and Sons is proposing to close its plant on Sandy Row, with the loss of 63 jobs... The company is blaming a fall in global demand for pipe tobacco as well as rising costs.”

This is the top room floor where the shell of an antique lift in the corner can be seen. In all likelihood this floor was probably used for drying and storage purposes.

________________________________________


---

I don't know why the narrator chose to focus on the Dunhill stuff instead of the actual Murray brand stuff,
and no mention of Warrior Plug?
Sacrilege!
:war:
:laugh:

craigmillar
01-03-2017, 22:17
At one time Belfast produced more tobacco product than any other city in the world.

HCraven
01-04-2017, 02:13
That's a great video, Troy! Odd that BAT would have thought in 2005 that the global demand for pipe tobacco was waning. I obviously don't have sales numbers, but I would think the low point would have come sometime in the 80's, although I suppose there may have still been an older generation of pipe smokers that kept up demand for some brands at that time.

misterlowercase
01-05-2017, 14:11
That's a great video, Troy! Odd that BAT would have thought in 2005 that the global demand for pipe tobacco was waning. I obviously don't have sales numbers, but I would think the low point would have come sometime in the 80's, although I suppose there may have still been an older generation of pipe smokers that kept up demand for some brands at that time.

That would be so informative if we had the sales numbers, one thing in Murray's favor was they made stuff for a large export market, like the Dunhill stuff the narrator highlights, and Erinmore had always been a strong seller too...

...but I'm clueless about business decisions, especially regarding a large behemoth like BAT.

The "falling demand" reason for shuttering factories or laying workers off, was like a universal standard answer to make for easy press/public relations,
I think.
That answer had been used by some of the bigger companies ever since the late 60's.

It's always difficult to find the real answers.

Back when I smoked factory-made cigarettes I liked Lucky Strike Filters but they quit selling them here for some unknown reason and were export market only, the frustrating thing being that they were made by BAT in my home state down at Macon --- at the time I called and spoke with several different people and they never gave me an answer.

And lately STG never responded to any of my emails regarding Velvan, I was actually contemplating calling them up and reading them the riot act LOL but decided I'd probably still be in the dark afterwards, only poorer from a long-distance phone call.

HCraven
01-06-2017, 02:37
That would be so informative if we had the sales numbers, one thing in Murray's favor was they made stuff for a large export market, like the Dunhill stuff the narrator highlights, and Erinmore had always been a strong seller too...

...but I'm clueless about business decisions, especially regarding a large behemoth like BAT.

The "falling demand" reason for shuttering factories or laying workers off, was like a universal standard answer to make for easy press/public relations,
I think.
That answer had been used by some of the bigger companies ever since the late 60's.

It's always difficult to find the real answers.

Back when I smoked factory-made cigarettes I liked Lucky Strike Filters but they quit selling them here for some unknown reason and were export market only, the frustrating thing being that they were made by BAT in my home state down at Macon --- at the time I called and spoke with several different people and they never gave me an answer.

And lately STG never responded to any of my emails regarding Velvan, I was actually contemplating calling them up and reading them the riot act LOL but decided I'd probably still be in the dark afterwards, only poorer from a long-distance phone call.

Over the years I've become more convinced that traditional big tobacco companies, like BAT, Reynolds and Phillip Morris, are more concerned with selling addiction than quality tobacco products, hence their exodus from the pipe tobacco market, and their lack of interest in their customers as anything more than demographics. I'm not sure what could be up with STG, but I recognize that some companies are simply better at listening to their customers than others. It's one of the reasons I appreciate Mac Baren, and am a loyal customer of theirs.

I used to like Lucky Strike Filters and Lights, too, but they were difficult to find regularly even before they went off the market. Regular Luckies were the only unfiltered cigs I ever cared for. They had a great flavor, where unfiltered Camels always seemed to taste like a forest fire.

misterlowercase
01-06-2017, 04:08
Over the years I've become more convinced that traditional big tobacco companies, like BAT, Reynolds and Phillip Morris, are more concerned with selling addiction than quality tobacco products, hence their exodus from the pipe tobacco market, and their lack of interest in their customers as anything more than demographics. I'm not sure what could be up with STG, but I recognize that some companies are simply better at listening to their customers than others. It's one of the reasons I appreciate Mac Baren, and am a loyal customer of theirs.

I used to like Lucky Strike Filters and Lights, too, but they were difficult to find regularly even before they went off the market. Regular Luckies were the only unfiltered cigs I ever cared for. They had a great flavor, where unfiltered Camels always seemed to taste like a forest fire.

You're so right about unfiltered Camels, I though they tasted pretty rank.
I loved the Luckies though and L.S./M.F.T. was always a cool little decoder ring!
Some of the best unfiltereds I smoked were American Spirit in the tan/brown pack, really good but they quit making those too.

Ironically, after the Fire Safe Cigarettes (FSC) were mandated I could no longer stand any of the factory-mades, they all tasted horrible and I believe the "fire rings" throughout the paper is pretty toxic stuff --- I went with the roll-ups then, mostly Drum and Bali Shag, until the 2009 156 percent increase in the federal excise tax on tobacco which made my 5oz. cans jump from $11 to $28 --- looking for alternatives because not only did the price increase but both my faves were off the market for a while, I know that Bali Shag was simply impossible to get a hold of --- I got myself one of those little injector thingies and got some unfiltered tubes and decided to try that out, in the process of looking for a suitable baccy to my liking, I discovered D&R's Two Timer which sounded to me like LS with good "toastiness" and as a supplier I luckily found a good one:
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipe-tobacco/Daughters-Ryan/Two-Timer-3.5oz/product_id/69914
= )
And while browsing there I questioned myself as to why I never considered pipesmoking, I was so clueless, all those years I was in the dark and had a totally wrong conception, developed basically from visits to the Tinder Box at Lenox Mall when I'd splurge for a carton of Gitane Blondes and smelling all the aro stuff in the jar didn't inspire me, and I mostly saw the cased meerschaums and thought it was all high falutin' richguy stuff LOL
Man, it woulda been so nice to have a pipe mentor!

Anyway, indeed I was curious enough to get myself a pipe, a Stanwell estate from ebay, it was a couple of years before I actually bought a new pipe!
So thank you SmokingPipes for illuminating my dim wits!

Shaunc
01-06-2017, 04:36
Aah camel cigarettes, the only cigarette with the factory on the pack.

jimbo44
01-06-2017, 10:19
Aah camel cigarettes, the only cigarette with the factory on the pack.

Brilliant!

misterlowercase
01-07-2017, 13:18
Aah camel cigarettes, the only cigarette with the factory on the pack.

:laugh:

haha
I had read that earlier but it went right over my head and I didn't grasp it until Jim made the note.

The "factory" being the camel and the "product" being his sh!t...

Funny stuff!

Rockbass
01-07-2017, 13:50
:laugh:

haha
I had read that earlier but it went right over my head and I didn't grasp it until Jim made the note.

The "factory" being the camel and the "product" being his sh!t...

Funny stuff!

It went over my head too, perhaps because I smoked Camels from 1959-2012. My parents smoked Lucky Strikes. :no-way:

misterlowercase
01-07-2017, 13:54
It went over my head too, perhaps because I smoked Camels from 1959-2012. My parents smoked Lucky Strikes. :no-way:

Wow!

That's a long time.

I would go for Camels on occasion, but somebody always seemed to comment that the smoke smelled like @#$!%#$!!.

For a good while I smoked Camel Wide Filters, once I got pulled over by a traffic officer and he wanted to search the car because he said it smelled of wacky weed when I rolled down my window haha but the filtered version (to my nose) didn't have the same intensity of smell as the nonfiltered version.

plugugly
01-07-2017, 14:04
It went over my head too, perhaps because I smoked Camels from 1959-2012. My parents smoked Lucky Strikes. :no-way:

Jaysis, Thomas! I'm amazed you're still here. Was it hard to give up the ciggies? WELL DONE!!!!! Ally had a tough time, but also saw it through.

misterlowercase
01-07-2017, 14:18
It was very difficult for me to give up the ciggies as I smoked them since age 14 (now age 47) and I thought that the cravings would never ever go away...

...but they did and I have no urge for any cigarettes at all and haven't smoked one in a couple of years.

The richness of pipe tobacco won me over and ciggies are mostly flavorless.

Corndog
01-07-2017, 14:24
Kool non-filters, deadheads we called 'em. My father smoked them and so they were the first cigarette I tried when I used to borrow them from him. The best thing about them was when others would ask to bum a cig, they'd turn their noses up, walk away, and never ask me for a smoke again.

plugugly
01-07-2017, 14:27
It was very difficult for me to give up the ciggies as I smoked them since age 14 (now age 47) and I thought that the cravings would never ever go away...

...but they did and I have no urge for any cigarettes at all and haven't smoked one in a couple of years.

The richness of pipe tobacco won me over and ciggies are mostly flavorless.

WELL DONE TROY!!!!! You have added many years to your life. I tell my patients that it is never too late to quit.

Rockbass
01-07-2017, 14:27
Jaysis, Thomas! I'm amazed you're still here. Was it hard to give up the ciggies? WELL DONE!!!!! Ally had a tough time, but also saw it through.

I have been told that I was boarding on grumpy at the time. The only time it's hard is when D#1 brings American Spirit cigarettes into the house.

achtman
01-07-2017, 15:35
I have been told that I was boarding on grumpy at the time. The only time it's hard is when D#1 brings American Spirit cigarettes into the house.

Thomas, I may trump you. I certainly trump young Troy. I just calculated that I started in 1958 and continued till 2015 with a 6 month break about 1970 when I tried unsuccessfully to break the habit. I only finally stopped when I developed mild COPD and had fluid in my lungs continuously. The fluid disappeared almost immediately after I stopped. The craving was mostly gone after 3 months with occasional attacks, and it is only rarely that I have the feeling now would be a good time to smoke a cigarette. I don't think I could have done it without starting up again on smoking a pipe.

misterlowercase
01-07-2017, 16:30
@Corndog - YOWZA! - I loved trying different ciggies and I never knew that Kool unfiltereds existed, one day I saw a pack and I was like whoah checkit, I gotta try 'em --- I had always enjoyed an occasional regular filtered Kool or Newport (except not first smoke in the morning!) but man, those things were S-T-R-O-N-G and I don't think I even finished the pack.

@Chris - Thanks,almost my entire extended family has always smoked ciggies and it was just "normal life" and I just fell right into it, I've always wished that I would have had an uncle or something who smoked a pipe so I could have saw a possible alternative, but nobody did.

@Mark - What was yer brand of choice?
Capstan Full or Senior Service or Kenilworth or something else --- I must admit that if I ever came across an old cutter of Capstan Fulls I'd smoke one just to see.

achtman
01-07-2017, 17:18
@Mark - What was yer brand of choice?
see.

I smoked Camel filters till 1978 and then I tried to be cool and hip, and shifted to rolling Schwarze Hand which is a half-dark German tobacco in Abadie papers, which are no longer made. Not being able to get Abadie papers made it easier to stop because no other rolling papers even came close. Unfortunately the tobacco is only sold in Germany, which made life problematical after 2007 when I moved to Ireland and then to the UK.

Corndog
01-07-2017, 17:33
Troy, my father was the only person I knew who smoked those Kool deadheads. I'm not sure if they're still making and selling them but you are right, they were/are very strong. Myself, between borrowing my Pop's Kools and cigars as he also smoked a couple of stogies a day...I'm ashamed to say I've been hopelessly addicted to the nails for a long time. I smoked Camel unfiltered for a good while and almost quit when they started adding all the crap to the tobacco. I don't smoke as many now but still have a pack or two on hand at all times, American Spirits. But hey, the AS Black has Perique so there's that, haha.