Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 37

Thread: An Inadequate "Sensationalist" Study

  1. #21
    Moderator jimbo44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Pipe smoker since
    1960
    Posts
    10,598


    5 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by plugugly View Post
    Bill, there are data in the main body of the paper,.

    I always regard highly the views of anyone who is literate/articulate enough to know that data is plural!
    Last edited by jimbo44; 08-14-2018 at 17:27.
    Work is the curse of the smoking classes

  2. #22
    Moderator Brooklin Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Pickering, Ont. Canada
    Real Name
    Bill
    Pipe smoker since
    1970
    Posts
    8,403


    5 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    It didn't occur to me until Dave asked about funding. I may be all wrong here but I don't think this topic of research would have been scientifically self motivated. In other words I think there would have been "encouragement" from a partial source or sponsor to initiate the study.
    "The box with the least amount of matches makes the most noise." MWB

  3. #23
    Moderator jimbo44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Pipe smoker since
    1960
    Posts
    10,598


    4 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Moving on from this flawed paper and without (I hope) diminishing the main point of the comparison to cigarette smoking, what are your views on any scare about linkage of vaping to "popcorn lung"?:

    http://www.lung.org/about-us/blog/20...isk-ecigs.html
    Last edited by jimbo44; 08-14-2018 at 17:33.
    Work is the curse of the smoking classes

  4. #24
    PSU Member plugugly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Real Name
    Chris
    Pipe smoker since
    2001
    Posts
    10,772


    6 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklin Bill View Post
    It didn't occur to me until Dave asked about funding. I may be all wrong here but I don't think this topic of research would have been scientifically self motivated. In other words I think there would have been "encouragement" from a partial source or sponsor to initiate the study.
    Bill, I hear what you say. But applying "benefit of the doubt", the study could be justified on the basis of possible detrimental effects of vaping on young people - previously non-smokers - who have joined the current vaping vogue, rather than trying to negate beneficial effects in adults who use e-cigarettes as an aid to quit smoking cigarettes. If this was the case, it could justify not having a cigarette smoke condensate group, but it would not IMO justify not having a proper control group (e.g. buffered saline).
    Last edited by plugugly; 08-14-2018 at 17:32.

  5. #25
    PSU Member plugugly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Real Name
    Chris
    Pipe smoker since
    2001
    Posts
    10,772


    5 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo44 View Post
    Moving on from this flawed paper and without (I hope) diminishing the main point of the comparison to cigarette smoking, what are your views on any scare about linkage of vaping to "popcorn lung"?:

    http://www.lung.org/about-us/blog/20...isk-ecigs.html
    "Inadequate" I would say, Jim.

    Just about to eat, so will respond after tea - an important question that also relates to 'cannabis Lung'.

  6. #26
    PSU Member plugugly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Real Name
    Chris
    Pipe smoker since
    2001
    Posts
    10,772


    5 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by plugugly View Post
    "Inadequate" I would say, Jim.

    Just about to eat, so will respond after tea - an important question that also relates to 'cannabis Lung'.
    "Popcorn Lung", Jim? I haven't heard that term, but I do know about bronciolitis obliterans and that it can be caused by exposure to chemicals. More often, I have seen it as a major pathological feature in lung transplant rejection. Once bronchiolitis obliterans has taken hold, it is very difficult to treat. I would not be at all surprised if some/many of the additives to e-liquid might have adverse effects on the lung. When I was still doing clinics (a year ago, now), if an adult patient who wished to quit cigarettes asked about e-cigarettes, I always strongly advised unflavoured e-liquids and cautioned against flavoured ones (we really don't know what the chemical additives do!). Therefore, an adult who wishes to use e-cigarettes to stop smoking would be stupid to be influenced by flavours.

    My main point in this thread was to advise anybody that wished to use e-cigarettes in order to quit smoking not to be put off by sensationalist articles in the media.

    The big problem comes with young people who join the 'vaping craze' - it is not my research field, but I would be sure that all/most use flavoured e-liquids with a huge range of weird and wonderful flavours, and containing the weird chemicals responsible. I would never deliberately inhale an e-liquid vapour without knowing the chemicals it contained had been proven safe. I haven't been following the inhalational toxicology field or legislation; but unless the fashion for vaping in young people dies out, it presents a major problem for the future health of youngsters.
    Last edited by plugugly; 08-14-2018 at 19:14.

  7. #27
    Moderator Brooklin Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Pickering, Ont. Canada
    Real Name
    Bill
    Pipe smoker since
    1970
    Posts
    8,403


    6 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    I agree Chris. In addition the nicotine content or "strength" in tobacco vapes cannot be necessarily controlled by the user. To my knowledge there is no standardization to know whether you are smoking "mild" or "strong."
    "The box with the least amount of matches makes the most noise." MWB

  8. #28
    PSU Member plugugly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Real Name
    Chris
    Pipe smoker since
    2001
    Posts
    10,772


    6 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklin Bill View Post
    I agree Chris. In addition the nicotine content or "strength" in tobacco vapes cannot be necessarily controlled by the user. To my knowledge there is no standardization to know whether you are smoking "mild" or "strong."
    Correct, and according to my taxi driver (lol!), he can buy unflavoured e-fluids with different strengths of nicotine. Pure chemical nicotine has been around for a while, so it should be pretty easy to set up concentration assays.

  9. #29
    PSU Member PyrateMate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Off the Starboard Beam, Just Over the Horizon!
    Real Name
    John
    Pipe smoker since
    1972
    Posts
    3,175


    4 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Aye Dr Plugs, I fer one humble Pyrate can only Thank Ye fer decypherin this here gobeldegook bout them ecigs... One unanswered question would be 'tould be whar do our precious pipes fall in the study?? As Ye be arr resident sawbones in charge (Queens Medal n all) Medaille_B.E.M._met_Brittania.jpg, I fer one believe Ye opinion afore some agenda pushin scalawag wot wants to take the rest o our 'bility t get the blends n baccies we pursure... 2.cents.gif
    "All I ask is a tall ship and a star to sail her by." - John Masefield

    "It is not that life ashore is distasteful to me. But life at sea is better." Sir Francis Drake, Sea Captain

    Proud Member of the Walrus Club

    Visit http://www.reserectedpipes.wordpress.com

  10. #30
    PSU Member plugugly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Real Name
    Chris
    Pipe smoker since
    2001
    Posts
    10,772


    3 members Liked or found this post helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by PyrateMate View Post
    Aye Dr Plugs, I fer one humble Pyrate can only Thank Ye fer decypherin this here gobeldegook bout them ecigs... One unanswered question would be 'tould be whar do our precious pipes fall in the study?? As Ye be arr resident sawbones in charge (Queens Medal n all) Medaille_B.E.M._met_Brittania.jpg, I fer one believe Ye opinion afore some agenda pushin scalawag wot wants to take the rest o our 'bility t get the blends n baccies we pursure... 2.cents.gif
    A good question, John, but I'm afraid I can't give you a good answer, only an opinion.

    The problem is that the statistical evidence base for pipe smokers alone is lacking because in the past they were mixed in with cigarette smokers, and in any case, especially with the pipering community shrinking, there are insufficient numbers to design a longitudinal study with a matched cohort of non-pipe-smokers, as in the legendary Doll & Hill study of cigarette smokers in the 1950's. And if such a valid study could be set up, who would fund it?

    Therefore, anything about pipe smoking alone is anecdotal; you see mouth and lip cancer, etc. etc. quoted in the textbooks - but with no statistical evidence.

    Opinions:

    - Is pipe smoking good for you? - no. And I'm not interested in discussing possible psychological benefits (impossible to define, though they may be very real for the individual)
    - Is it as bad as cigarette smoking? - definitely not.
    - Is it bad to inhale pipe smoke? - yes
    - Would I ever deliberately inhale pipe smoke? - absolutely not
    - do I clench the pipe stem for long periods in the same part of the mouth? - no
    - do I have a drink at my side as I smoke the pipe? - yes
    - Have I tried, or considered trying, giving up the pipe? - no
    - Do I want to live to a hundred? - no

    Hope this is enough, John. I'm still knackered after the e-cigarette thread! LOL

    BTW, that was the wrong medal. This is mine - pretty, methinks.


    CBE.jpg
    Last edited by plugugly; 08-16-2018 at 20:10.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •